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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Meh, according to the CEO of Harley Davidson, they don't sell motorcycles, they sell a "lifestyle"......I guess since more and more people are rejecting the lifestyle they were peddling, they're shifting focus and trying to target the hipster, vegan, ****, salad eating, millennial generation.
and what about the Tranny rider ? you forgot to mention that the she-male demographic might find this bike appealing. We need to be more inclusive !!
 

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I think their previous prototype estimate was closer to 200 miles on range. I could live with 110 for around town riding, but not at that price. I'd rather buy a Zero for less than half the price.

Great planning Harley: Too green for your loyal customers, too compromised for other cyclists, and too expensive to lure in new riders. Should be interesting to watch how all of this plays out.
 

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Not to mention.... that is one ugly ass bike! WTH is with the weird looking side panels? Looks like an oversized radiator. Looks even worse than the ridiculous giant scoops of the Diavel.
C'mon man those scoops on the diavel are there to suck in all the greenies that are riding there single geared bicycles....
The electric HD is not an option for me I dont use my bikes to commute and dont ride them under 300kms in range.Oh yeah and it has a HD badge..
 

· A White Carbon is NOT an AMG
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Looks like HD is clutching at straws to me, Their traditional customer base is drying up rapidly, what with death, arthritis, dementia, not that Dementia is legitimate, i reckon you need dementia to buy your second one......
Anyway, with their traditional market dwindling fast, the european emissions laws forcing them to re-engineer their super sophisticated air cooled 60 degree V twin lump of poo (note the Dyna range dropped, the V-rod range dropped.....) they're left with sportsters, street, and softail models. NONE of them appeal to new riders in any significant numbers by comparison so they try to promote something new, cutting edge to attract the new hipster millenial customer.
It's a shame that HD have grossly underestimated the requirements, the intelligence and the expectations of a customer base they have no idea about. Maybe if they offered free flannel shirts, grey stick on goatees and a fake tattoo skivvy they would sell some, maybe.

Oh and to be clear, i wouldn't be interested in any electric bike, Volt, HD or Ducati branded, whatever the mileage, charge time, performance, i've ridden one and they are as dull as dish water, and i ride bikes for more than transportation, for dull i have a car.
 

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Looks like HD is clutching at straws to me, Their traditional customer base is drying up rapidly, what with death, arthritis, dementia, not that Dementia is legitimate, i reckon you need dementia to buy your second one......
Anyway, with their traditional market dwindling fast, the european emissions laws forcing them to re-engineer their super sophisticated air cooled 60 degree V twin lump of poo (note the Dyna range dropped, the V-rod range dropped.....) they're left with sportsters, street, and softail models. NONE of them appeal to new riders in any significant numbers by comparison so they try to promote something new, cutting edge to attract the new hipster millenial customer.
It's a shame that HD have grossly underestimated the requirements, the intelligence and the expectations of a customer base they have no idea about. Maybe if they offered free flannel shirts, grey stick on goatees and a fake tattoo skivvy they would sell some, maybe.

Oh and to be clear, i wouldn't be interested in any electric bike, Volt, HD or Ducati branded, whatever the mileage, charge time, performance, i've ridden one and they are as dull as dish water, and i ride bikes for more than transportation, for dull i have a car.
Slight correction....the H-D air cooled v-twins are 45 degree and always have been except for the BMW 180 degree knock-offs they produced during the WW2 period. The V-Rod, the best, most reliable, fastest, quickest model H-D ever produced was a 60 degree liquid cooled model. They decided to discontinue the V-Rod. Smart move H-D.
I like the styling of the LiveWire but at $30,000.... no thanks. Even at $15,000 it would be a tough sell. This is DOA....
 

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Not to mention.... that is one ugly ass bike! WTH is with the weird looking side panels? Looks like an oversized radiator. Looks even worse than the ridiculous giant scoops of the Diavel.
My guess from the photos was that the big black lump in the middle was the battery pack and that there are cooling fins on the battery case. So the scoops could be for battery cooling - and probably to add a little "sporty" appearance. I think the motor assy is the silver case at the bottom.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Oh and to be clear, i wouldn't be interested in any electric bike, Volt, HD or Ducati branded, whatever the mileage, charge time, performance, i've ridden one and they are as dull as dish water, and i ride bikes for more than transportation, for dull i have a car.
I kind of agree. I think a NON transmission bike would be boring. I myself would never buy a motorcycle with an automatic DCT like Honda offers .

I may be mistaken, but I am not aware of any automatic transmission motorcycle selling well ever.

Please post a correction if I am wrong.
 

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OK, here's my $0.02 AUD...

I thought the original Livewire looked interesting in the vids released a few years back.

I was disappointed they didn't bring their fleet of "here, ride this and tell us what you think" Livewires to a locale remotely near me...

The new one looks Ok to me.

Colors are OK, wheels, brakes and suspenders look not too different from those on my Diavel.

According to these folks it has Showa adjustable suspension and "cornering ABS"

https://www.bikesale...ivewire-116366/

Apparently it makes some sort of preplanned noise in order to give a little more "experience" to the ride..(I don't think it should be silent either).

My impression is that the lack of real ICE roar will give a greater impression of speed and acceleration rather than less.

Gears?

Yeah, I like to play tunes goin' up and down the 'box too, so that would need to be compensated for by absolutely startling (whhooooaahhhh fuck!!!) performance with seemingly no limits set by particular ratios.

As far as Harley's business model of "upsell and accessorise"....be honest, don't you find other manufacturers (Think Triumph, Ducati etc) are playing exactly the same game?

Runs shit when you buy it (blame it on the Feds and their damned emissions laws..."but we can fix it for only $$$ and your agreeing to break aforementioned laws")

Why is it Honda can pass emissions and run properly out of the box?

$80 for a fucking t-shirt, $4000 (fitted) for the Termi exhaust/ecu kit on my OG Diavel (literally laughed out loud at the salesman when he asked if I'd like to add that to my new bike purchase...but hey, some people bought 'em).

Weight is something no-one has mentioned and to me that would be very important.
The riding experience I would be hoping for would not include "650 pound plus of chrome plated loveliness"
Rather I would be looking for "precision tech and feel in a lightish and easy to handle package with astonishing performance" as it's selling points.

Who might buy it?
I'm seeing the same guy who might buy the CVO series bikes.

Well heeled (need to be if early price estimates of around $40k in Oz are to be believed) and probably in the 40 plus age group (HD's current majority buyer).

Someone who wants just a little bit more than average Joe's like me can afford (hell, every man, their dog, even Alby can afford a bloody Harley these days)..

It's quite likely you will see them parked up next to other "cafe" bikes, not too far from home or the next trendy lunch spot on a Sunday afternoon.

Range....HD is claiming "around 110 miles (175km)" I can say a lot of days that would be enough, on the days it wouldn't I guess it's ride one of your other bikes.

Thing is we're pretty much only just starting out on the whole electric transport scene, when pubs / restaurants / servos have fast charge outlets that for only a few dollars more can top up your scoot and chuck it on the "touch to pay" terminal along with lunch, range anxiety won't be so high on everyone's list.

I don't see many of the traditional Harley owners (and I am one of them..2012 FXDWG) buying one at ANY price (most of my mates have been turning up their noses at the latest HD styling efforts, think FXDR, FXDB, FXFB, even Fatboy).

I'd love to ride it for the sensation but I don't think I would buy it.

Bloody hell, bit more like $2.00 than $0.02 worth there, but yeh, there's my thoughts.
 

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100 miles rated. When has your MPG matched the sticker?
Temperature, aging, manufactures's BS ... all will reduce range.
Take mfgr's spec and divide by 2 for real world figures.

90% of my riding is less than 100 miles return. So a 300 mile rated bike would do me nicely I figure.

But .... what about touring? Until there is a charger infrastructure at every gas station .... electric is out for me.

However I had a ride in a Jaguar all electric SUV last week. 4 adults in it and it takes off like a jet fighter.
So quiet and smooth. I can certainly see me in an electric vehicle, and or bike once range and "refueling" are no longer issues, and price.... not paying a premium for the vehicle.
 

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100 miles range is not enough.

That being said don't anyone here be under any illusions: electric powerplants make insane amounts of torque and will eat the lunch of any ICE provided it has enough traction to put it down. Its full torque is available from zero to top speed (I almost said rpm lol). I've enough time driving, being a passenger in and racing against Tesla's (both in my car and on the XDiavel) to know what those motors do. You almost have to TRY to lose a drag or roll race in a performance electric.

Anyone thinking a performance electric motorcycle will be a fruity scooter is in for a world of unpleasant lessons. But will the Livewire be high performance?

Electric motors are almost an easy button for manufacturers - its old tech (hell we were pushing battleships around on electric motors in the 1930s) and its simple. The real question is will HD nail the rest of it: the battery, the chassis, the suspension, and engine/battery/cooling management.

Will the Livewire be allowed to be a beast? Its not a complex engineering challenge. Its a quality, manufacturing and sales challenge. Will HD allow the Livewire to canibalize its old school bagger sales?

Who knows.

I do know I will go test ride one.

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(Having said all that - I don't think HD will price the LiveWire at $14k. Not remotely. Its to be a halo bike. They need it to generate press. They need it to generate desire. They need celebrities on it. It'll be $20k easy. The lesser expensive HD electrics will come later.)
It seems that the statement "100 miles range is not enough" is being challenged by the speaker. They argue that electric powerplants are capable of generating significant amounts of torque and can outperform internal combustion engines in terms of speed and acceleration. They suggest that anyone who underestimates the power of a performance electric motorcycle is in for a surprise. However, the speaker also acknowledges that the success of the Livewire will depend on more than just its electric motor. The battery, chassis, suspension, and engine/battery/cooling management must also be well-executed. Finally, the speaker predicts that the Livewire will be priced higher than $14k, likely closer to $20k, as it is intended to be a halo bike that generates press and desire.
 
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