[viper]

Just wondering what people think of the Harley Livewire electric motorcycle.

Price is still unknown, and I myself feel price is the first important decision making factor, but if I just set the price point at around $14K ( not too high, yet still in the mid Harley price range) simply for purposes of discussion, and not based on ANY reality, would anyone really part with that kind of cash, say $14K for a electric bike ?

Lets also for the purpose of discussion, make believe- or assume the bike has a real riding true 100 mile range.

$14K price and 100 mile range electric Harley. Those are the set hypothetical numbers I am setting for this discussion.

Any takers ? and why ?

 

[ETrider]

No way, range must be 300+ for my day rides. Other than that, I would consider buying one at that price.

 

[viper]

I agree and think that 100 miles would be limited in range. I just do not think that the bike will have more range.

Another thing that kind of turns me off is that the bike has no gears. I enjoy the manual transmission of combustion engines.

 

[CropDuster]

if it's engineered like their regular bikes it will be a "shocking" POS.

Can't see a company that survives on glorifying ancient philosophy and american pride over sound engineering practices making a success out of anything remotely modern.....

 

[viper]

if it's engineered like their regular bikes it will be a "shocking" POS.

Can't see a company that survives on glorifying ancient philosophy and american pride over sound engineering practices making a success out of anything remotely modern.....

OK, but I am not really asking about the Harley brand as it relates to my question.

what if the bike was made by Honda ? or Ducati ? irrespective of the brand of manufacturer who makes the bike.....

If a major manufacturer, wether its Honda, Harley, Yamaha, or Ducati, or BMW produces a motorcycle that is all electric, and that bike has a range of 100 miles and is priced at $14,000.....

would anyone here buy the bike ?

Thats really what I am asking.

 

[Hvrnaut]

I am pleased to see that HD is looking at new technologies. This has more to do with my desire to see many Americans gainfully employed than it does with my desire to buy into the "American made" hyperbole that Harley has perfected.

HD bikes are made of parts manufactured all over the world. Their gear and wearable swag? Made in China, Vietnam, etc. HD is truely one of the leaders of great marketing (another being Kimber handguns; don't get me started)

I am not hating on HD. I owned one. Maybe they will forced to incorporate the latest and greatest tech into thier electric line. I'll buy the best product available to me and FOR me. If it's made by HD, that's okay. Heck, I'd be thrilled about it.

I would need to go 200 miles on a charge. I'd pay up to 20k for the right bike, but it'd better be damned good.

 

[viper]

I would need to go 200 miles on a charge. I'd pay up to 20k for the right bike, but it'd better be damned good.

thanks for your input.

I personally feel that 100 miles would not be enough range. When I ride, I ride an entire day or at least 3-5 hours in one ride, So I also would need a minimum of 150 miles but closer to 200 would be a deal maker for me. I do not ride to commute where low range would suit me.

Price wise, I would not pay over $16K even with 200 mile range, no matter who makes the bike.

 

[dieselshadow]

I have a feeling we will be disappointed in both price and range since it will have the HD logo on it. Then they'll want you to pay for the "upgraded" battery and faster charger etc etc. That is their business model. Premium price and sell the crap out of the parts, accessories, and motorclothes.

I love the idea, and will always own an HD or two, and even perhaps a Livewire, but only time will tell.

I wait and watch and see how good this bike will be. Perhaps even go test ride one if the numbers are good.

 

[CropDuster]

OK, but I am not really asking about the Harley brand as it relates to my question.

what if the bike was made by Honda ? or Ducati ? irrespective of the brand of manufacturer who makes the bike.....

If a major manufacturer, wether its Honda, Harley, Yamaha, or Ducati, or BMW produces a motorcycle that is all electric, and that bike has a range of 100 miles and is priced at $14,000.....

would anyone here buy the bike ?

Thats really what I am asking.

well why mention HD at all then, they're not the first to build an electric bike, they're hardly innovators at anything, they probably bought a licence for someone elses technology anyway.

That said, electric bikes don't do it for me, wouldn't matter what the brand was, how fast it was (and they can be bloody fast!) or how far they go on a charge, it's just not anything that excites me in any way.

And the cost to me is irrelevant, no one will buy an electric bike based on cost, more likely they will follow the prius line of hippie tree hugger type thinking that they're saving the planet....

Saving the planet with the proliferation of batteries, chemicals etc run on electricity generated primarily from fossil fuel, dickheads.

 

[viper]

well why mention HD at all then, they're not the first to build an electric bike, they're hardly innovators at anything, they probably bought a licence for someone elses technology anyway.

That said, electric bikes don't do it for me, wouldn't matter what the brand was, how fast it was (and they can be bloody fast!) or how far they go on a charge, it's just not anything that excites me in any way.

And the cost to me is irrelevant, no one will buy an electric bike based on cost, more likely they will follow the prius line of hippie tree hugger type thinking that they're saving the planet....

Saving the planet with the proliferation of batteries, chemicals etc run on electricity generated primarily from fossil fuel, dickheads.

OK, but just on performance and electric being a new and novel riding experience, with the possibly of the electric motorcycle drivetrains being the future , would you buy a electric motorcycle NOW-CURRENTLY and if it is interesting to you, what range of miles per charge would you need to pull the trigger ( assuming price is not relevant ) ?

 

[Hillslam]

100 miles range is not enough.

That being said don't anyone here be under any illusions: electric powerplants make insane amounts of torque and will eat the lunch of any ICE provided it has enough traction to put it down. Its full torque is available from zero to top speed (I almost said rpm lol). I've enough time driving, being a passenger in and racing against Tesla's (both in my car and on the XDiavel) to know what those motors do. You almost have to TRY to lose a drag or roll race in a performance electric.

Anyone thinking a performance electric motorcycle will be a fruity scooter is in for a world of unpleasant lessons. But will the Livewire be high performance?

Electric motors are almost an easy button for manufacturers - its old tech (hell we were pushing battleships around on electric motors in the 1930s) and its simple. The real question is will HD nail the rest of it: the battery, the chassis, the suspension, and engine/battery/cooling management.

Will the Livewire be allowed to be a beast? Its not a complex engineering challenge. Its a quality, manufacturing and sales challenge. Will HD allow the Livewire to canibalize its old school bagger sales?

Who knows.

I do know I will go test ride one.

-------------------------

(Having said all that - I don't think HD will price the LiveWire at $14k. Not remotely. Its to be a halo bike. They need it to generate press. They need it to generate desire. They need celebrities on it. It'll be $20k easy. The lesser expensive HD electrics will come later.)

 

[Oneup008]

No way will an electric motorcycle cost 14k unless it has crappy mileage limitations. I've driven several and they can be fun but don't give me range anxiety, thats a deal killer. Also a quiet bike tho stealthy would suck in traffic. My termi is a fog horn lane opener when splitting lanes.

 

[viper]

The reason that I started this thread is because I personally think that the harley livewire will be a massive flop, and will not sell well, if at all.

And, I am wondering if there is something that I am overlooking that may otherwise make the electric Livewire a success. The Zero Motorcycle Company has been making electric motorcycles already for a while and their bikes have a highway range of about 100 miles. ( city range is higher due to brake regeneration , but that range really applies to commuters) so I do not see Harley doubling that range to a more useful and practical 200 mile highway cruising range.

I also agree and speculate that Harley will price the Livewire close to $20K, which will discourage most serious motorcycle riders to purchase it, especially with 100 mile range.

Zero motorcycle Company sells their 100 mile range bike for about $15-$16K.

So assuming Harley sells their Livewire for about $17K with about 100 mile range...... I am wondering who is going to buy it ?

I expect it to be a massive sales failure....in my opinion.

Anyone have a different outlook ?

 

[Roadrunner]

The true range will be more along the lines of 30 miles once they outfit the bike with 700 lbs of chrome, fat bitches, and luggage racks.....

 

[Z06_Pilot]

well why mention HD at all then, they're not the first to build an electric bike, they're hardly innovators at anything, they probably bought a licence for someone elses technology anyway.

That said, electric bikes don't do it for me, wouldn't matter what the brand was, how fast it was (and they can be bloody fast!) or how far they go on a charge, it's just not anything that excites me in any way.

And the cost to me is irrelevant, no one will buy an electric bike based on cost, more likely they will follow the prius line of hippie tree hugger type thinking that they're saving the planet....

Saving the planet with the proliferation of batteries, chemicals etc run on electricity generated primarily from fossil fuel, dickheads.

Sounds like HD did something pretty horrible to you personally, based on your posts on this thread.....WOW......

for the OP, I do agree 100 miles is not adequate. My bikes are for pleasure only, so no daily mileage to have to worry about. However, pleasure riding, I would think, means more miles during one riding session than a daily commute in many cases. My regular riding route is about 130 miles round trip or so.

Also, probably through conditioning after years of riding, I can't imagine having virtually no sound other than a "whirring" from under the seat. The motor on the XDS is one of its primary highlights. That exotic sound just knocks me out every time I ride it. Riding cage-less is a lot about becoming one with this highly mechanized piece of machinery that you are controlling and are a part of. I feel like an electric version would be too sanitized-kind of like conducting a science experiment rather than having a fully involved experience.

as for HD doing this. IMO, the V-Rod was an impressive piece of engineering and design, in some aspects, when it came out in 2002. It was a bold statement and complete departure for the brand that they eventually squandered, but there's no doubt they have (or can easily acquire) the talent to pull something like this off if the suits and old guard get out of the way. The Livewire concept has been around HD for at least 5 or 6 years that I am aware of, so they have been putting some serious time into it.

As for the price, I think it would depend on the performance of the final product to determine if 14K would be worth it or not.

So, while I applaud the forward-thinking, mold-breaking step the Livewire would be, (if delivered to the market properly), it's something I would rent once or twice out of curiosity, rather than own and ride regularly. Can't wait to see it materialize though, and hopefully be a catalyst in truly reversing the fortunes of the Motor Company as of late, and make that American brand truly relevant.

 

[viper]

Sounds like HD did something pretty horrible to you personally, based on your posts on this thread.....WOW......

for the OP, I do agree 100 miles is not adequate. My bikes are for pleasure only, so no daily mileage to have to worry about. However, pleasure riding, I would think, means more miles during one riding session than a daily commute in many cases. My regular riding route is about 130 miles round trip or so.

Also, probably through conditioning after years of riding, I can't imagine having virtually no sound other than a "whirring" from under the seat. The motor on the XDS is one of its primary highlights. That exotic sound just knocks me out every time I ride it. Riding cage-less is a lot about becoming one with this highly mechanized piece of machinery that you are controlling and are a part of. I feel like an electric version would be too sanitized-kind of like conducting a science experiment rather than having a fully involved experience.

as for HD doing this. IMO, the V-Rod was an impressive piece of engineering and design, in some aspects, when it came out in 2002. It was a bold statement and complete departure for the brand that they eventually squandered, but there's no doubt they have (or can easily acquire) the talent to pull something like this off if the suits and old guard get out of the way. The Livewire concept has been around HD for at least 5 or 6 years that I am aware of, so they have been putting some serious time into it.

As for the price, I think it would depend on the performance of the final product to determine if 14K would be worth it or not.

So, while I applaud the forward-thinking, mold-breaking step the Livewire would be, (if delivered to the market properly), it's something I would rent once or twice out of curiosity, rather than own and ride regularly. Can't wait to see it materialize though, and hopefully be a catalyst in truly reversing the fortunes of the Motor Company as of late, and make that American brand truly relevant.

OK,......but do you think more than 3,000 units of the Livewire electric bike will sell per year ? especially after the 1st year of initial enthusiam and novelty ?

Zero Motorcycles sells less than 3,000 electric motorcycles per year ( worldwide) and they are the #1 electric bike manufacturer currently.

(PS- Harley is a brand I love and brand l still shop. I love the new 2018 fatboy. I am just trying to guess if the Livewire will be a sales bomb, since I do not see a market in electric motorcycles that supports Harleys initial investment in the production of this electric bike. Will the Livewire be a drain financially for Harley ? I personally do not see how they will make money with this bike, just IMO. )

 

[Crussell]

There is a bunch out there already. I have no reason to think Harley will be better than the rest and every reason to think they will be more expensive and offer less performance. I would love to see them competitive but I am doubtful.

The key for me is range and speed of charging. The performance is a given.
They are already breaking 2 seconds 0 to 60.

When they can fully charge in 15 or twenty minutes, have highway range of at least 200 miles and come in under $20K, I'll start taking a hard look at them.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

There is a bunch out there already. I have no reason to think Harley will be better than the rest and every reason to think they will be more expensive and offer less performance. I would love to see them competitive but I am doubtful.

The key for me is range and speed of charging. The performance is a given.
They are already breaking 2 seconds 0 to 60.

When they can fully charge in 15 or twenty minutes, have highway range of at least 200 miles and come in under $20K, I'll start taking a hard look at them.

Different ways to measure performance. 0-60 is not really important to me. precise, easy turn-in, how easy is it to lay down in turns, especially switchback S-curves, how well does it grip at the apex to get the power down out of turns,etc. The chassis, suspension, and steering all have way more to do with performance in my mind than a 1/4 mile test metric. I think it's a given that a bike with no transmission or gearing is going to be very quick from a standing start.

 

[Z06_Pilot]

OK,......but do you think more than 3,000 units of the Livewire electric bike will sell per year ? especially after the 1st year of initial enthusiam and novelty ?

Zero Motorcycles sells less than 3,000 electric motorcycles per year ( worldwide) and they are the #1 electric bike manufacturer currently.

(PS- Harley is a brand I love and brand l still shop. I love the new 2018 fatboy. I am just trying to guess if the Livewire will be a sales bomb, since I do not see a market in electric motorcycles that supports Harleys initial investment in the production of this electric bike. Will the Livewire be a drain financially for Harley ? I personally do not see how they will make money with this bike, just IMO. )

Actually, I don't know that they are looking for mass sales. I would see the Livewire as a halo product. Like the GT-R is to Nissan and the NSX is to Honda. Low production vehicles displaying the highest level of engineering within the company to both market the brand and for trickle-down of technology into the more mass market models in out-years.

 

[viper]

Actually, I don't know that they are looking for mass sales. I would see the Livewire as a halo product. Like the GT-R is to Nissan and the NSX is to Honda. Low production vehicles displaying the highest level of engineering within the company to both market the brand and for trickle-down of technology into the more mass market models in out-years.

Yes, I believe you are correct.

It seems that the Livewire really does not meet the needs of most current motorcycle riders. ( price, range, no gears)