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Yep, I finally did it.

I gave up on the messing with stock suspension. The final straw was the last 200 mile ride I took.

A bit of history on my journey to this route.

1. Read the forum on suspension setup and adjustment.
- Made many adjustment attempts on my own
- 210lb rider: Front: 0 Preload, 0 Comp, 0 rebound ---- Rear: 22 clicks-in Preload (2 clicks per turn), 7 clicks-out Comp, 7 clicks-out Rebound.
- It is a bit better
- Felt great in smooth roads straight or curved. Wheel felt planted on smooth roads
- Failed miserably in rolling bumps (one bump or dip after another on in close successions) on freeway front fork jolts upward. Any bumps on canyon roads on a curve felt uneasy.

2. Took to Dave Moss Tuning at their local suspension clinic session www.feelthetrack.com
- First of all Dave never adjusted a Diavel personally and commented on how I can ride with such stiff setup.
He also felt that my front and rear are very unbalanced with the above adjustment.
- First he set my SAG and was shooting for 32~34mm. We settled roughly 34mm front and 35mm back.
- 210lb rider: Front 0 Preload, 2 clicks-out Comp, 0 rebound ---- Rear: 12 clicks-in, 7 clicks-out Comp, 11 clicks-out Rebound
(He mentioned that my front preload is out of adjustment for optimal setting and recommend possibly changing the spring out for my weight. He felt the spring is bottoming out too quickly even with 0 preload.)
- Result is felt smoother especially if you down shift using engine brake the front and rear of the bike settles down at the same time. (at local test ride going no more than 45 mph on residential street)
- Rode it back home and hit that nasty patch of rolling bumps and the nasty front end jolt came back. Also the rear now bounces even more.

3. Following week I gave up and decide to spend some money to get the suspension rebuilt (Didn't want to spend the money for Ohlins yet).
- Called up Racetech http://www.racetech.com/ and spoke with Terry who offer to use my bike as R&D because they have not done a Diavel rebuild before. I gave them a budget of under 1000.00 if possible to optimize the front and rear with their "Gold Valves"
- Got the good news and bad new after they took the stock suspension apart later that week.
- Bad news
- the stock Diavel front cartridges are sealed and can not be rebuilt.
- The front fork springs are too soft for my weight and there is only about 10mm of available of travel and adjust ability due to the tall spacer
(as Dave Moss stated the spring bottoms out too quickly with my fat ass on it. Also the source of the front jolt)
- Good news
- We can put in a stiffer spring for my weight and cut down the spacer to allow more room for the spring to travel and adjustment.
- Use 5wt fork oil to soften the suspension a bit more.
- The rear suspension is decent enough for my weight. They didn't recommend changing anything until we try the front first.
- It will only cost 400.00 and lot less because for R&D bike. (far better price than 3000.00 Ohlins Front and 1200.00 Ohlins Rear)
- Results
- Tech who did the work on says it feels better, but nothing to write home about. But harshness is gone.
- 5wt fork oil, stiffer spring, cut spacer. Now there is 34mm of spring travel adjustment available.
- 210lb rider: Front 2 1/2 turn-in Preload (2mm per 1 turn in) SAG 35mm, 1 turn-in Comp, 0 Rebound ---- Rear (SAG 37mm) 24 clicks-in Rebound, 18 clicks-out Comp, 11 clicks-out Rebound.
- Harshness on the front end is much less. Still problem with rolling bumps at high speed. But some what more manageable.

*** Something important Racetech informed me about the stock forks. You bottom is not where the silver sleeve meets the wheel mount. You need to measure 44mm up from that point and that is where the fork bottoms out at ***

Now this: Andreani Cartridges 105/D06 Diavel Fork Kit (Custom Spring 8.8 N/mm for 210lb Rider ) and Ohlins Du110 Rear Shock (Custom Spring 85N/mm for 210lb Rider) from David Behrend at Fast Bike Industries www.fastbikeindustries.com Authorize distributor of Andreani Suspension for USA.



I hope this is the last dollar I spent on the Diavel other than fuel and oil change. I am with anyone now, who wonders how come a $21,000.00+ retail motorcycle have such crappy suspension. I am sure there might be a S version Diavel in the near future that comes with factory Ohlins. Strange thing is my stock 07 R1 Yamaha suspension feel so much more planted and smoother compare to the Diavel, but half the retail price.

I think this is eventual route of anyone who really want to dial in their suspension and can't justify the full Ohlins package experience.

Just my 2 cent.

P
 

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That's the combo I went with and really like it lot.
Make sure you use the right fork oil.
Some of my old posts detail the Andreani install.
Enjoy!
 

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That's the combo I went with and really like it lot.
Make sure you use the right fork oil.
Some of my old posts detail the Andreani install.
Enjoy!
Ha.Ha... I read a lot of your posts. Including the issue with the bottom screw thread out of spec. And I am not as brave as you to attempt the install myself.

Also that thread is where I found out about USA distributor. David does not do any advertisement at least searchable on google. If Andreani guy did not mention David, I don't think I would of found his company.

David from Fast Bike Industries recommend me to use Ohlins 5wt fork oil with the Andreani. Is that what you used?

Are there different version or formula of the Ohlins 5wt fork oil?

P
 

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Thanks for the report psyzfr1.

I'm really surprised that your mechanic thought that the stock forks are too soft. Nearly everyone else on the forum comments on them being too firm, myself included. I've never been able to bottom out the fork, even under emergency maximum braking practice. The problem I experience is the rear bottoming out on every little bump, and the fork inducing a pogo effect on uneven roads.

I will say this though. I've lost 20 lbs in the last 3 months, now down to 170 lbs and still shrinking, and I've noticed my stock suspension has improved significantly in terms of ride comfort. I probably need to readjust my preload for reduced sag. Previously I had set for 35 mm sag front and rear, but I suspect at my new weight I won't be able to hit that with 0 preload on front.
 

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I used Ohlins part number 01309-01 as recommended by the instructions that came with the Andriani's.
It is a very lightwieght oil for use in cartridge style suspensions.
They call it their Road and Track Fork Oil.
 

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I agree with previous comment: your forks were too SOFT?? I'm heavier than you and mine barely even budge! Local suspension wizard (official title?) looked at me (like a cow that sees a train passing by for the very first time) after he checked the forks... then asked 'erm, and you manage to ride this thing?!?' He even suspected the entire thing was broken; even after setting everything to zero and messing with something I didn't understand (a screw near the wheel), he couldn't get the forks to work even one wee bit...

Pffffrr, this kind of money for a bike and the suspension sucks?!? €4500 for F/R Ohlins on top of the price of the bike itself, that bugs me


This Winter I'll have the forks sorted out, but I'm NOT spending this kind of money: Andreani or Pro-whatever, ok... we'll see... but if it's not better next year, I'm selling the bike...
 

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I agree with previous comment: your forks were too SOFT?? I'm heavier than you and mine barely even budge
I never claimed my suspension is too soft. Every expert who worked on my Diavel thought it was too stiff when I sat on it.

It is important to understand that there are several factors that makes suspension stiff. Racetech looked at what is the least cost to solve my problem. I think you suffer from same if not worse problem than me. Your springs in the forks (not the full suspension) is bottomed out or close to bottom out when you sit on it. The springs only have 10mm of travel left in the fork with 0 preload. So when you hit a bump the sudden jolt you feel first is the spring fully compressed and not the suspension bottoming out.

By making more space (34mm) you have more than doubled the space for the spring to travel before it bottom out. But you also don't want the spring to compress too quickly. So you have to use the right spring to match your weight.

The pogo stick effect that many described is caused by front and rear suspension not in balance with each other as described by Dave Moss tuning to me.

I am by no means suspension expert. Maybe some one who is more qualified can comment on this too.

I just got the Andreani and Ohlins shock in the mail yesterday. I dont have it installed yet. But everything else I read on this forum seem to be positive.

But no one really did a detail review of Andreani cartridges. Maybe FLHtoFXDtoDUC you care to describe the major difference what Andreani changed for you.

P
 

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The main difference between stock and the Andreani's is adjustability.
With the stock front suspension their was no road feel it just hammered along. I had the preload and the compression backed right off and still it was too stiff.
The Andreani's soak up the bumps much better and instill a lot more confidence when in a bumpy corner.
If you do some changes to the preload, compression or rebound you actually can feel the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
FLH,

I got the Diavel back from the dealer. They are not suspension savy as Racetech guys. They only did the install and not pay any attention of the technical aspect of the Andreani cartridge. They couldn't tell me anything about setting and where the forks bottoms out.

I was wondering you know where Andreani bottom out at in relation to the lower fork casting? Is it suppose to be same as the original?

For instance the stock Diavel fork with Marzocchi bottoms out at 44mm above the lower fork casting. It give you an illusion you have more suspension travel left with more slider showing.

With zero preload my sag is 30mm and it is hitting the 44mm mark I measured from lower fork casting right now. But I don't know if the suspension is bottomed out here also or there is more travel.

Also what is your Andreani rider sag mm?

Rebound? Comp?

thx

P
 

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With my Andreani's setup for my weight I did not have to add any preload to get the proper sag of 27mm.
As far as compression and rebound go all four screws are set at one turn out from being lightly seated. This adjustment would deffer depending on the oil thickness.
This setup is great for me using the recommended oil.
The best thing about these cartridges is you can actually tell the difference when adjustments are made.
Fork tube travel is not changed with the cartridge swap.

Check out this manual. Lots of good suspension setup info. It is for the rear shock but there is a section discussing setup of both ends.

http://www.ohlins.com/Products/OwnersManuals/OM_07241-02.pdf
 

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Ok it dialed in for now.

Andreani front forks spring rate for 200lb rider

Rider sag 28mm

Preload 1.5 turn in from all the way out

Rebound 2.5 turn in from all the way out

Comp 2 turn in from all the way out.

Ohlins Rear spring for 200lb rider

Rider sag 24mm

Preload 0

Rebound 16 clicks from fully close

Comp 12 clicks from fully close. (Recommended default)

The front is floating through bumps awesome!

Turn feels well planted. Rear feels stiff but no vibration even through turns.

The high speed dampening is way better than stock.

When I get a chance I will bring it to an expert to tune it more so the front and rear will match up better. But my butt suspension dyno is really loving this current setup.

P
 

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Good to hear.
If the rear feels stiff back off on the comp. I backed mine off from the default setting and it felt alot better.
 

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BTW, the "weight" system for oil viscosity is extremely vague and there are major variances within and among brands. A more consistent way to specify fork oil is by cST (centistokes) at 40 degrees C.

To give a sense of the radical variations in weight ratings vis-à-vis cST, Honda Pro HP 5wt measures 17.0 cST, while PJ1 fork Tuner 5wt measures 31.2 cST. Other 5wt fork oils fall both below and above 19 cST.

The recommended Ohlins Road & Track oil is rated at 19 cST.

Oils that are close to Ohlins' 19 cST include:
  • Motul Fork Oil (Comfort 5) - 18.2
  • Motul Factory Line (Light 5 wt) - 18.3
  • Agip Fork (2.5 wt) - 18.5
  • Bardahl (5 wt) - 19.3
  • Bel-Ray HVI (5 wt) - 19.5
  • Torco RFF 10 - 19.9
 

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BTW, the "weight" system for oil viscosity is extremely vague and there are major variances within and among brands. A more consistent way to specify fork oil is by cST (centistokes) at 40 degrees C.

To give a sense of the radical variations in weight ratings vis-à-vis cST, Honda Pro HP 5wt measures 17.0 cST, while PJ1 fork Tuner 5wt measures 31.2 cST. Other 5wt fork oils fall both below and above 19 cST.

The recommended Ohlins Road & Track oil is rated at 19 cST.

Oils that are close to Ohlins' 19 cST include:
  • Motul Fork Oil (Comfort 5) - 18.2
  • Motul Factory Line (Light 5 wt) - 18.3
  • Agip Fork (2.5 wt) - 18.5
  • Bardahl (5 wt) - 19.3
  • Bel-Ray HVI (5 wt) - 19.5
  • Torco RFF 10 - 19.9
Good info. Thanks
 

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I thought I need mention this again with a picture.

You can judge how much travel you have left before you bottom out in most forks by looking at your lower fork casting and the slider space. The stock Ducati Diavel front forks bottoms out at 44mm above the lower fork casting! You have 44mm more of the slider and that gives you the illusion you have more travel left.

I think this is a very important piece of information that is not mention in the user manual when trying to dial in your suspension. Some of you are running zero everything in the front forks, may want to double check.

I use a cable tie to see how far my suspension dips down during a regular riding session and mark the 44mm above the fork casting with a piece of electrical tape.

BTW: these forks has the Andreani kit already inside when I took this picture.

 

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psyzfr1,

That's some solid info there.

So I take it since you've been treated well by RaceTech, if I give them a call, they'll be more than ready to take care of me as well?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
howheels,

Racetech are good people and they know about suspensions. But what do you wish to accomplish going to Racetech with your Diavel?

I have already been there and they dont really have a solution for Diavel. The only thing they can do for you is change out the spring for you and cut down the bushing for some more room for the spring to flex. That is only a band aid to the problem.

Changing the spring and cut down the bushing only made the ride a little better. I still get the sudden jolts when going over bumps at high speed, but it is softer and more manageable. The cartridges are the main issue but they are sealed and not serviceable. Racetech don't have a replacement cartridge for the Diavel.

Also, Racetech do not want to work on Diavel rear suspension at all. It require removal of the swing arm. I wonder what the Ducati engineer were thinking when they designed the Diavel. The only reason to drop the swing arm for the rear shock is so you can thread the hydraulic preload adjuster line thru it. Anyways, they recommended me to get it done at the dealer. So I ended up having Brea Ducati (Southern California Motorcycles) install the Andreani and Ohlins shock for about $800. You can save about 30.00 if you buy the Ohlins Road and track fork oil 01309-1 online for about 29.00 vs 37.99 + tax at the dealer. You will need a little over 2 liters, so 3 bottles.

If you plan on spending any money for your Diavel on suspension, then I suggest your minimum upgrade is the Andreani front and Ohlins rear. If you budget is higher than the Ohlins forks.

If you are ever near my neighborhood in the OC, then you are more than welcome to test ride my Diavel and see the difference.

P
 

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How much are the Andreani Cartriges and where did you buy them from?

wow 800$ to fit both rear and front..is that the normal price it will cost to get these fitted at the dealership?
 
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