[Baikyo]

Hi,
Been having this problem for a while now and was wondering if anyone else has encountered it (Diavel dark 2013 model). The bike has had a few problems in the past (of course) but after about 15000kmthe bike engine would not start (just a clicking noise when pressing ignition). I took it back to the ducati dealership and they couldn't find anything wrong so they assumed the battery was dead. They replaced the battery and was all good until about a month later and same thing happened Took it out and recharged it myself this time and it worked for another month or so then same again. Took it back to the dealership again and their response was that it could be due to a faulty display or ECU and suggested to replace those parts. I have already tuneboy'd my ECU so if possible don't want to change it so got them to change the display only. Also, have been riding with the same tuneboy'd ECU for at least 7000kms without any problems so don't think that it is the cause. Anyway same thing again - was working for a while then after about a month the engine wouldn't start. Last resort I changed to a lithium battery hoping that the extra voltage will keep me going - not ideal I know but gets me to work. I noticed last night that the voltage went down from 13.1to 12.6 overnight (resting heartbeat). Is this normal ? Also noticed that the bike is wheezing when starting the engine - sounds like it is really struggling. Once it gets going is fine. Pretty sure something is draining the battery, maybe some faulty wiring somewhere but dealership said they already checked. Only other thing I can think of is that I am doing quite short trips to work 10kms each way with traffic lights so maybe the battery is not getting enough charge but on the other hand have been commuting on it since I bought it and have not had this problem until about 15000km as mentioned. Had another problem in the past when the main display was cutting out when turning left and the indicators wont activate until pressed really hard (this was fixed but is happening again recently). Ducati has sold me a piece of sh*t and I hate it but love it at the same time - the mental anguish is the worst part. If any of this rings a bell please post.
Ps. I always keep the red starter switch UP

 

[2015DARK]

How often is the bike ridden. Everyday, every other day, once in awhile? How far is it ridden when it is ridden?

 

[Baikyo]

I ride it to work about 3 times per week (10kms each way) then about twice a month I'll do a long trip (couple of hundred kms) but maybe some months just the commute trip with short ride around town on the weekend.

 

[AML]

Lithium battery should help. I've changed mine too.

But honestly this sounds like bad wiring. Maybe the battery wiring/ignition. It could be draining the battery somehow.

Keeping the bike plugged in on a tender would keep the battery charged, but you shouldn't have to do that.

There's also a set of battery ignition wire upgrades available off eBay. This could fix the issue but that would be at your cost.

You seem to ride it often enough. I spend weeks without rides and It still starts up ok.

I agree that Ducati bikes can be expensive turds. I'm currently on my 3rd coolant leak and its pissing me off. Can't ride it and still waiting for parts to arrive.

 

[fred]

did they check the cable at the starter and at ground?
Loose cables are easy to check and cause can problem alike that.

I hate that they used the word
"assume"

 

[Baikyo]

They changed the battery so im hoping at least they checked the connections as well since they said they 'couldnt find anything wrong'. Last resort was to change the ecu which they went ahead and did before I asked them to put the old one back in. Maybe I should get a second opinion.

 

[AML]

Good to rule out the ecu. That leaves the screens?
Do any of your screens stay on when the bike is turned off?
(Like when you hold the switch to lock the handlebars)

You also left your switch in the down position before which drained your battery too. Could it be something to do with that?

Something has to be draining the battery.

 

[DUCAVELCR]

The immobilizer and key fob transponder have a small I mean small amount of draw on the battery have them look into these 2 things too.

 

[Baikyo]

Thanks for the replies - I'll probably have to take it back at some point and i'll ask them to look at the things mentioned here. AML - screens are fine as is the handle lock etc. I'm making an effort to keep the ignition switch up. The guy at the ducati dealer was playing around with it a bit listening for an electric current before surmising 'probably not that' ..... Worst case scenario, i'll get them to change the ECU and if the problem still remains i'll ask them to replace it with my old one with the Tuneboy key (or ask for a new diavel : ) ) so I don't have to pay for it. They already know that I have flashed the ECU and apparently this invalidates the warranty (the guy said they have to send the old ECU back to Italy or something) so I would have to pay for the new one. That in itself is frustrating since the bike is practically unrideable without remapping the ECU as we all know. arrrgh.

 

[Baikyo]

Ps. Tried using the tender using the connector under the seat. Would go to fully charged in matter of minutes but still had the engine not starting problem. Weird.

 

[popcornkid2002]

Baikyo,

I know how frustrating electrical issue can be. Without sounding like a "know it all" or being abrasive let me say this: I have been an Automotive Technician for 30 years. Worked as a technican in a dealership, Technical Training Instructor for factory and dealership personnel for major automotive manufacturers and a Field rep for 28 dealers repairing the vehicles the technicans couldnt repair. Now I am a test specialist at a major manufacturer for electrical issues. I have extensive knowledge of vehicle electrical, starting, charging systems. Several question have been asked about your specific issues.

There are several ways you can test these systems or the dealer can. But, it seems the dealer doesnt have the patience and qualifications to solve this issue. (assumption).

A battery drain or draw is caused by excessive current draw in the electrical system.(amperage draw). With the immobilizer system, ECU memory, ABS module and other computers there will always be a current draw. This is why you must use a battery tender on the bike. A normal current draw with these systems should have no more than 200 to 250 milliamps when measured with an ammeter. This measurment must be made after about twenty mins. after the bike is shut down for every module to go to sleep. This is why the battery is not installed into the bike until delivery to the customer not only because of the hazards of shipping the battery, but Ducati doesnt want to discharge the battery during transport.
This test is called a long term current draw test. If the dealer does not measure this for at least an hour or longer, they will not be able to verify if the electrical system has a draw. And I doubt they have done this.

If there is an excessive curent draw than it is as simple as disconnecting one component at a time until the draw goes away. Arbitrarily replacing modules is not going to fix the problem. I highly doubt that the ECU is casuing the problem.

If the current draw is normal, that I would perform a starter current draw test while cranking. Excessive current draw means faulty starter which would cause slow cranking, or no starts. This is also a simple test that the dealer can do. Another test could be done on all the charging starting curcuits using Voltage drops with a volt meter.

If the problem exist when it is at the dealer, then thats the best case scenerio. They can do these test very easily and repair it because the problem is there.

Mention these test to the technician at the dealer, if they dont understand, than it's time to visit a shop that does.
Test to be performed:
Starter current draw test
Long term current draw test
Voltage drops on all charging/starting circuit cables/wires
Charging system voltage test/output. Should be about 13.8 volts to 15 volts when running.

Again, not trying to toot my own horn, but I have dealt with dealership personnel and the lack of attention to a customer issue first hand. Usually, after the customer has been in several times for the same issue and the technician cannot repair the problem.
Dont get me wrong, some dealership service personnel are top rate. You have choices hopefully.

If you cant solve your issue, find a dealer that knows what these test are and know how to perform them. If after testing then ask to see what the measurments are.

Hope this helps.

P.S. You can perform these test if you have a simple DVOM. (Digital Volt Ohm Meter)

 

[AML]

As popcornkid said, arbitrarily changing parts won't fix anything and it sounds like they're trying to scapegoat the ecu since they know you remapped it and can then charge you for it.
They need to figure out where the drain is coming from and replace that part.

Have someone translate that and tell them straight up. You shouldn't have to pay for anything if it's under warranty.

If the problem really is the ecu, that has nothing to do with any mapping you did or didn't do. It's a hardware issue, not software.
If they decided to invalidate your ecu due to tuning, then they are just being assholes.

 

[Caz Duke]

Hi
Popcornkid has covered thoroughly the points you need to test. But a quick check of charging system, if you dont have a DMM is to access the battery voltmeter already in your main menu. With the bike running you should, as Popcorkid said, be displaying something above 13V. Even at idle mine shows 14.2 but proper charging doesnt occur till above approx 2k rpm. This is why short trips can drain a battery.

 

[vman]

Baikyo,

I know how frustrating electrical issue can be. Without sounding like a "know it all" or being abrasive let me say this: I have been an Automotive Technician for 30 years. Worked as a technican in a dealership, Technical Training Instructor for factory and dealership personnel for major automotive manufacturers and a Field rep for 28 dealers repairing the vehicles the technicans couldnt repair. Now I am a test specialist at a major manufacturer for electrical issues. I have extensive knowledge of vehicle electrical, starting, charging systems. Several question have been asked about your specific issues.

There are several ways you can test these systems or the dealer can. But, it seems the dealer doesnt have the patience and qualifications to solve this issue. (assumption).

A battery drain or draw is caused by excessive current draw in the electrical system.(amperage draw). With the immobilizer system, ECU memory, ABS module and other computers there will always be a current draw. This is why you must use a battery tender on the bike. A normal current draw with these systems should have no more than 200 to 250 milliamps when measured with an ammeter. This measurment must be made after about twenty mins. after the bike is shut down for every module to go to sleep. This is why the battery is not installed into the bike until delivery to the customer not only because of the hazards of shipping the battery, but Ducati doesnt want to discharge the battery during transport.
This test is called a long term current draw test. If the dealer does not measure this for at least an hour or longer, they will not be able to verify if the electrical system has a draw. And I doubt they have done this.

If there is an excessive curent draw than it is as simple as disconnecting one component at a time until the draw goes away. Arbitrarily replacing modules is not going to fix the problem. I highly doubt that the ECU is casuing the problem.

If the current draw is normal, that I would perform a starter current draw test while cranking. Excessive current draw means faulty starter which would cause slow cranking, or no starts. This is also a simple test that the dealer can do. Another test could be done on all the charging starting curcuits using Voltage drops with a volt meter.

If the problem exist when it is at the dealer, then thats the best case scenerio. They can do these test very easily and repair it because the problem is there.

Mention these test to the technician at the dealer, if they dont understand, than it's time to visit a shop that does.
Test to be performed:
Starter current draw test
Long term current draw test
Voltage drops on all charging/starting circuit cables/wires
Charging system voltage test/output. Should be about 13.8 volts to 15 volts when running.

Again, not trying to toot my own horn, but I have dealt with dealership personnel and the lack of attention to a customer issue first hand. Usually, after the customer has been in several times for the same issue and the technician cannot repair the problem.
Dont get me wrong, some dealership service personnel are top rate. You have choices hopefully.

If you cant solve your issue, find a dealer that knows what these test are and know how to perform them. If after testing then ask to see what the measurments are.

Hope this helps.

P.S. You can perform these test if you have a simple DVOM. (Digital Volt Ohm Meter)

 

[vman]

Hey popcorn excellent post I learned a ton thanks

 

[Baikyo]

Thanks once again for taking time to reply - especially popcornkid for the detailed post. That made a lot of sense even for someone like me with almost no technical knowledge.

I am going to get a health check on my battery at my local garage soon just to make sure that the new one is definitely getting drained as well. Once I get confirmation I will take the bike back to the Ducati dealer while I still can and get them to carry out the draw tests etc. Actually, I should get in touch and ask them if they have already done these (will be a bit tough to explain in Japanese but should get by). The guys there aren't bad and have helped me out in the past, even not charging me for things they are entitled to like connecting my ETC card reader etc so their intentions are most likely good I would say, maybe just a lack of understanding of the problem. I'm relieved to know that it's probably not the ECU that is causing it. Other thing that is on my mind is that this p[roblem started about 3 months after they replaced the 'main harness' to fix the problem of the display blanking out when turning the handlebars left, might have something to do with that.

Caz Duke, ive been keeping an eye on the voltmeter and when running seems normal, well consistent anyway at 13.8-14.5. Just to clarify, after I have turned the engine off it will be at about 13.1v if I have ridden long enough - next morning that will go down to 12.6v or so - that is not right is it ?

 

[popcornkid2002]

That is exactly right. A fully charged battery will have 12.6 volts. A typical lead acid battery. The charging voltage seems good too.
It's 13.1 when you shut it off becasue of what they call surface charge. The correct time to check it is when it has sat for a few mins. or load it with the headlights for a few seconds. That voltage sounds great.

One other thing, if they replaced the "main harness" previously, then I would have them recheck there work. This is a major repair and things can happen when reassembling the bike. I would look at simple things like make sure the grounds on the new harness are tight. Can't tell you how many times I have fixed something after a technician repaired or replaced a part and they unintentionally forgot something very simple such as a connector not fully connected or loose ground wires. A simple recheck, visual inspection solves alot of issues.

 

[The M]

Ps. Tried using the tender using the connector under the seat. Would go to fully charged in matter of minutes but still had the engine not starting problem. Weird.

That's valuable information there. That could indicate a bad battery or possible bad starter wiring, bad ground, or a dying starter motor. We need more information though. Try this: put a voltmeter on the freshly charged battery and try to start the bike. Make a note of what the battery voltage drops to during the starter actuation and get back to us.

 

[bigdaddy33]

Any chance the replacement battery is defective? It's happened to me.

 

[popcornkid2002]

Me too.