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Diavel Stalling



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#21 Baz Turd

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:45 AM

I've done 200 miles on mine and its stalled once as I slowed for a junction. My dealer told me to use the highest octane rated fuel i can in the bike were you told the same? We have 95 or 98 fuel in the UK?

Don't know if this will help....

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#22 BobC

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 09:44 AM

View PostBaz Turd, on 27 April 2011 - 08:45 AM, said:

I've done 200 miles on mine and its stalled once as I slowed for a junction. My dealer told me to use the highest octane rated fuel i can in the bike were you told the same? We have 95 or 98 fuel in the UK?

Don't know if this will help....


I have to believe the issue is too lean setting forced my emissions regulations. I use the best fuel I can get but because California puts alcohol in the fuel that probably doesn't help. My Vmax with a blower & twin webber didn't have a stalling problem (of course running lean wasn't an issue) nor have any of my other bikes so I think it's just a setting that needs to be addressed on this bike. I think the dealer is at the mercy of Ducati on this but they have to correct it at some point.

#23 Haku

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:45 AM

What you're about to read is coming from a non mechtechie and may be just plain bs but it worked for me.

I've had a slight stall happen once and at the same time had the engine run rough. I had switched the engine on and immediately had taken off with a cold engine and for the duration of the ride (40 mins) had the issues I mentioned. Since then I've let the bike warm up from up at standstill and then ridden it with no issues. Its been smooth and no stalling.

As I mentioned, my experience may count for zilch... try it if you haven't already.

#24 Captain Scarlet

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:28 PM

"but because California puts alcohol in the fuel that probably doesn't help"
... I think you mean Ethanol? Derived from rape seed I believe? That certainly doesn't help and isn't particularly green either - I've no idea why the US government think it's a good idea? Eats Ducati plastic tanks too! Anyway alcohol and high octane fuels need high running temperatures to burn 'the most' efficiently. Which is why high performance vehicles manuals always suggest running on the highest octane grade, which usually has the least impurities like traces of lead/ethanol content and all sorts of other gritty crap, and doesn't help the engine run particularly smoothly especially when hot; it is usefully cheaper though :shifty

My personal view, which like Haku's statement you take on board what you will or ignore it's all good, is: that the bike should be run on the highest octane grade you can get at the pumps. A warm engine will run better than a cold one, but I don't think that's the actual problem, or very unlikely IMHO. I personally stand a bike upright and let it settle before starting it, to ensure the oil is evenly distributed - if you've ever seen an old boxer engine smoke at start-up after being left on it's side-stand as oil seeps past the internals, you'll know why. I then start it. And as the 'vast' majority of wear is at startup and waiting for it to warm up, I ride it 'immediately' - neither labouring nor using high revs, until the bike reaches it's normal running temperature. If the bike stalls at junctions when at normal temperature, then consciously think about not removing your throttle hand from the grip; and then see if there is any play remaining in the twist grips itself. I.e. did you have the throttle open just a tiny smidgeon? If you did, it most probably is the root cause of the stalling. If so, adopt a gentler feel with the grip. I imagine I am holding a small bird in my hand. Tight enough so it cannot escape, but light enough so that I do not harm its delicate wings. I do this at 'all' speeds, as it really reduces vibes through the bars, and helps smoothness when counter steering. If you already have a deft gloved hand, with Rossiesque throttle control, then consider rotating the throttle housing or fitting a (shorter movement) race thrrottle? If it's still happening to you and you believe all of the above to be complete bobbins, then just maybe you do have a genuine problem? If so, I'd say identify if it happens when the bike is cold, hot, or when started from hot, then ask the dealer to check it out. It could be something simple like balancing the throttle bodies, which would help starting if that seems laboured too. I had a similar stalling problem with my Multistrada. Only seemed to happen when I was in mad-twat mode, hammering up to junctions at vast pace and braking like I was Kevin (see god and brake... ) Schwantz. In the end I tracked down the cause of the problem. Me! :smoke:

#25 Haku

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 02:14 PM

Great info Captain.

BTW, I'm lucky to have "no ethanol" gas available at my local station and thats what I usually fill up with.

#26 Rhett

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:04 PM

This stalling issue seems to plague everything Ducati as of late... the 1098 had this issue, the 1198 has this issue and now the multi and the Diavel too? The stalling issue is the only reason I don't have an 1198 in the garage now, I was holding off until it was fully resolved as I didn't want to have a bike stalling and nothing that can be done.

I sure hope this is not a trend as it seems..... makes me think it's more of a desmo valve issue then anything else.


Interesting for sure.

#27 ssassc1

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:50 PM

View PostRhett, on 27 April 2011 - 03:04 PM, said:

This stalling issue seems to plague everything Ducati as of late... the 1098 had this issue, the 1198 has this issue and now the multi and the Diavel too? The stalling issue is the only reason I don't have an 1198 in the garage now, I was holding off until it was fully resolved as I didn't want to have a bike stalling and nothing that can be done.

I sure hope this is not a trend as it seems..... makes me think it's more of a desmo valve issue then anything else.


Interesting for sure.


Mine is a real bitch to ride in city traffic. On light throttle its really jerky and not smooth at all. It was running ok till I got the Termi / Ecu upgrade.

Dealer says it should be fixed when Ducati releases a new map upgrade for it? Apparently its running VERY lean and hardly getting any fuel??

Thats nice, but you fork out all that hard earned $$$ hoping to get a better performing bike !! Kinda makes a it a bit disappointing!!!!!!!!

Mind you, on throttle it sounds and goes like being shot out of a cannon

I wonder how long before Ducati will release updated maps????????

#28 Captain Scarlet

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:57 PM

I've ridden a fair bit on the Multistrada 1200 (mine own was the 1100 btw) demo bikes on both sides of the pond, and now the Diavel too (taking it out again Friday afternoon - dealer recognises my withdrawal symptoms!), but none of these bikes stalled on me at any point. I cannot categorically say they are isolated experiences, but I haven't reproduced it on my rides personally. I've read a 2,500 posting thread (completely) on the MTS on another site and don't recall anyone posting this problem? I hope they are one off's, or like me with the 1100, people braking hard whilst indadvertedly not 'completely' closing the throttle, due to a longer travel in the grip, than on some other bikes? Any further feedback from anyone affected appreciated.

#29 Duc Farmer

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 05:34 PM

I rode around in touring til 600 miles. There were times when the bike would hesitate before catching itself, but once switched to sport all quirks disappeared. I find parking lots, hills (up or down), and even heavy traffic easier to handle in sport. I have the standard exhaust until the ecu and backorder issues are figured out on the full termi's. I'm hoping it won't be long!

#30 Rhett

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 08:50 PM

Well of course anything Ducati puts out map wise will have to conform to the epa bs... so what we really need is an after market system for mapping etc... I'm sure there are a couple in the works as I type this, so it won't be long.

#31 ssassc1

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 09:57 PM

View PostRhett, on 27 April 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

Well of course anything Ducati puts out map wise will have to conform to the epa bs... so what we really need is an after market system for mapping etc... I'm sure there are a couple in the works as I type this, so it won't be long.



Maybe using this www.fatduc.com as a short term or even long term, (if Ducati don't update maps) could be an option?

#32 Thewolf

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 10:25 PM

View Postssassc1, on 27 April 2011 - 09:57 PM, said:

Maybe using this www.fatduc.com as a short term or even long term, (if Ducati don't update maps) could be an option?


I'm guessing Tuneboy (tuneboy.com) will have something eventually too which will also allow for retuning with aftermarket exhausts and full diagnostics

#33 DiavelRR

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 12:05 AM

My Ducati 1098 R stalled a lot when it was new. It would stall after it had been ridden for a while and I would come to a stop.It eventually stopped doing that.

I have always used the highest octane gas I could find and that generally is Sunoco 94. There is a Sunoco Station near where I ride that has GT 100 . That's 100 unleaded octane pump gas. In a typical ride I will hit that Station once and depending on my tank level I may get 2 or 3 gallons of the GT 100 . 2 weeks ago it was $6.60 a gallon. I think in my " Race " type bikes , the 1098 R and S 1000 RR, that it makes a difference in the performance . I know it lowers my mpg.average than when I don't get it and just buy the 94 octane. My Ducati has a full Race Termi Exhaust , Race ECU and Race Air Cleaner since new.

#34 BobC

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 08:23 AM

A lot of good feedback here. You're right Captain, it is Ethanol & not alcohol they put in the gas here. I have scoured the Net and found that stalling is not just an issue with the MS & Diavel. I saw posts dating back to 07 about stalling problems. One post was a bit unnerving. A guy with a new 1198 I believe it was said he was making a slow turn when his engine died and he wasn't able to hold it up and dropped the bike in the turn and the bike suffered quite a bit of damage. Yesterday as I was on my way home from work on the Diavel I was sitting at a very busy intersection where the cross traffic blocks the intersection trying to get across and a guy on a sportbike stalled just as he was in the middle of the intersection. The cars started blowing their horns at him. I think they wanted to mow the poor guy down. He was surrounded by cars and he couldn't get the bike re-started so had to push it to the side of the road while cars swerved around him. That's why a stalled bike is dangerous. Anyone who's stalled their bike while starting from a stop in traffic knows how scary that can be. The cagers just seem to want to push you off to the side or run over you just to get you out of their way.
Anyway I have been careful to not shut the throttle completely off when coming to a stop and that works but it also means I have to brake with 1 finger so in a panic stop I might be in trouble. I wish I could ride more relaxed & enjoy the bike not having to worry about stalling everytime I come to a stop. Hoping getting more miles on will cure it as it seems to have done for some others.

#35 Captain Scarlet

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:05 PM

No Bob, as oxymoronic as it sounds, I think stalling often occurs because people are 'not' fully releasing the throttle in good time coming to a stop from speed. It doesn't give the engine any time to idle whilst at the exact same time we're expecting it to drop revs quickly whilst forcing it's internals to be off balance - i.e. It's kind of like stopping too fast when you are sprinting, your own body mass wants to keep propelling you forwards. A six hundred four say, is very different in this respect to a 1200 v-twin with massive fist sized pistons moving at slower speeds with heavier punches.

I'm sure that probably sounds a little far fetched, but as anyone will tell you who gets their knee down at the race track, often you have to physically push the bike down hard with a lot of force just to keep it leant over (the heavier the bike the more muscle required) as it's natural desire is to constantly right itself directly due to it's mass and central fugal forces wanting to throw it upright all the time. Bikes are no different in a straight line. It's just that the mass is moving forwards and backwards under acceleration and braking, rather than side to side when flicking through a left and right tight bend for instance. Acceleration is no problem as we are rolling on the throttle. But when decelerating we are asking the bike to still behave whilst throwing a lot of counter forces at it.

Give up the one finger braking. If four finger braking is good enough for both Doohan and Rossi (their preference, so I've read of interviews with them), then it's good enough for everyone else too!

Re: the guy who stalled. If you ride a bike (even one with zero tickover) and stall it performing u-turns, then in my honest (and granted harsh) opinion, that is rider error. Period. Even worse if he had to push it. What's wrong with a one second pull in the clutch and stab of the starter?

I don't know what it's like in CA, but in GA the system really fails the rider. The motorcycle test here doesn't prepare people to ride, only to pass a 'very' basic test. To be able to get a provisional license and ride a big bike on the road (no pillions, night-time or freeway use) without having 'any' tuition or passing any tests whatsoever, is total reckless abandonment at the very best. I'm astounded I don't see a bike fatality on a daily basis as a direct result! I did a Rider's Edge 'experienced riders' course (expecting counter-steering, vanishing point techniques etc), and it was actually much more rudimentary than the very basic riders course and test in the UK, as an example. I've been riding a long time, so it was easy for me to pass, i just needed a US full bike license without getting too bored on a basic course. But I really felt sorry for some of the 'experienced' riders who couldn't even ride slowly, reach 30 mph and brake in a very relaxed distance or perform feet up u-turns in pretty wide open spaces. Very scary and I did wonder why some of them hadn't died horribly already.... Anyway, I digress:

Has anybody who has experienced this stalling problem tried themselves or asked their dealers mechanic to simply turn up their idle speed / tickover just a smidgeon, so that it neither stalls no races? Just a thought...

#36 RBD914

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:15 PM

Took delivery today, 150 miles ridden and no stalling or jerkiness just awesome power, sublime handling and the sound of thunder echoing off the canyons - brilliant bike!

RBD914

#37 BobC

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 02:56 PM

View PostCaptain Scarlet, on 28 April 2011 - 02:05 PM, said:

No Bob, as oxymoronic as it sounds, I think stalling often occurs because people are 'not' fully releasing the throttle in good time coming to a stop from speed. It doesn't give the engine any time to idle whilst at the exact same time we're expecting it to drop revs quickly whilst forcing it's internals to be off balance - i.e. It's kind of like stopping too fast when you are sprinting, your own body mass wants to keep propelling you forwards. A six hundred four say, is very different in this respect to a 1200 v-twin with massive fist sized pistons moving at slower speeds with heavier punches.

I'm sure that probably sounds a little far fetched, but as anyone will tell you who gets their knee down at the race track, often you have to physically push the bike down hard with a lot of force just to keep it leant over (the heavier the bike the more muscle required) as it's natural desire is to constantly right itself directly due to it's mass and central fugal forces wanting to throw it upright all the time. Bikes are no different in a straight line. It's just that the mass is moving forwards and backwards under acceleration and braking, rather than side to side when flicking through a left and right tight bend for instance. Acceleration is no problem as we are rolling on the throttle. But when decelerating we are asking the bike to still behave whilst throwing a lot of counter forces at it.

Give up the one finger braking. If four finger braking is good enough for both Doohan and Rossi (their preference, so I've read of interviews with them), then it's good enough for everyone else too!

Re: the guy who stalled. If you ride a bike (even one with zero tickover) and stall it performing u-turns, then in my honest (and granted harsh) opinion, that is rider error. Period. Even worse if he had to push it. What's wrong with a one second pull in the clutch and stab of the starter?

I don't know what it's like in CA, but in GA the system really fails the rider. The motorcycle test here doesn't prepare people to ride, only to pass a 'very' basic test. To be able to get a provisional license and ride a big bike on the road (no pillions, night-time or freeway use) without having 'any' tuition or passing any tests whatsoever, is total reckless abandonment at the very best. I'm astounded I don't see a bike fatality on a daily basis as a direct result! I did a Rider's Edge 'experienced riders' course (expecting counter-steering, vanishing point techniques etc), and it was actually much more rudimentary than the very basic riders course and test in the UK, as an example. I've been riding a long time, so it was easy for me to pass, i just needed a US full bike license without getting too bored on a basic course. But I really felt sorry for some of the 'experienced' riders who couldn't even ride slowly, reach 30 mph and brake in a very relaxed distance or perform feet up u-turns in pretty wide open spaces. Very scary and I did wonder why some of them hadn't died horribly already.... Anyway, I digress:

Has anybody who has experienced this stalling problem tried themselves or asked their dealers mechanic to simply turn up their idle speed / tickover just a smidgeon, so that it neither stalls no races? Just a thought...


I think maybe I need to find a nice open road with no traffic & experiment with different slowing techniques to see what seems to work best. I just sold a Big Dog chopper (1750cc) Vtwin that I had for 7 years as well as a Honda ST1300 V4 & I never had this type of an issue with them so maybe this Vtwin is just a different beast. I'll try what you suggested to see what happens. When the bike has stalled I have not been making a conscious effort to watch how I am slowing down so I am always caught off guard. I didn't think the idle speed was adjustable but I'll ask my dealer tomorrow when I take it in for the first service. Mine idles about 1200 rpm which I think is about normal for this engine. Maybe they can try to up it to about 1300 to see if that helps.

As for the guy that stalled yesterday I could see that he was hitting the starter button but it just wouldn't fire. Maybe ran out of gas & if so then that was his own stupid mistake.

I think most states are pretty lax about showing you can actually ride a motorcycle. Since you can't take the examiner out on the street like you do in a car about all they can do is see if you can manuever around a short course. You do need to take a safety course though. I've had a motorcycle license since California required them but I've been riding since the mid 60's when a regular automobile permit or license was all that was required. You didn't need to know how to ride at all to be legal on the road.

#38 Captain Scarlet

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 03:38 PM

Stopping a circa 300 Kg chopper/tourer is different from a 207 kg bike fitted with proper monobloc radial Brembo race brakes fitted with ABS. I.e. It can (so you probably will) stop much faster. 1200 sounds ideal as an idle. You certainly wouldn't want it at 1500 or anything. But make 1350 or something 'could' make the world of difference. Worth investigating with your friendly Ducati mechanic most definitely. Good luck - let us know how you get on...

Actually you can take the examiner out on the street! I was actually a bit shocked that there was 'no' street riding for the US test - I mean, where 'did' they expect us to ride? This is precisely what happens in the UK via simple intercoms with radio batteries. Like the US you do a computer test. Then an off-road/hard-standing private playground environment for Compulsory Basic Training (CBT) which is very similar to the Rider's Edge Experienced Riders Course, except you have a road test segment whereby an examiner follows you on a short ride. If you pass both of these 'then' you can ride a 12 bhp 125 cc machine on the road with 'L' learner plates displayed. You still have to pass a further test on a motorcycle of 500cc or over, based on a long road ride with an examiner following with intercoms fitted. Then in theory you can ride a big bike, but insurance will be so high that you are unlikely to ride anything bigger than a non sporty 600 for the first three years or so. Inexperienced riders still crash in the UK of course. It's just that they are sufficiently trained to understand 'why'! :)

#39 Kaj

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Posted 28 April 2011 - 09:53 PM

View PostRBD914, on 28 April 2011 - 02:15 PM, said:

Took delivery today, 150 miles ridden and no stalling or jerkiness just awesome power, sublime handling and the sound of thunder echoing off the canyons - brilliant bike!

RBD914


600 km ridden, otherwise fully agreed!!

Kaj

#40 diavel666

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 05:41 PM

I have 2000 kms on it, did first service a while ago. It stalled tonight for the first time. I was going about 80 kph coming up on an intersection I noticed I was in 5th and granted left it a little late but geared down 4 3 then when hit 2 it stalled I coasted into the turn and half way through it restarted it and kept going. My wife on the back did not even notice. Now this is interesting, about 5 kms earlier I filled it for the first time with 94 fuel. I'm in Canada so we usually only have 87 89 and 91 and up to now I have been using 91. Also it was prepay so I was upset at that and only put 5 bucks in which would be less than 1/4 tank for this hi grade stuff 94 which is hard to find. Also I noticed the bike ran very rough on this fuel. I would have thought the opposite would occur. Our fuel does say up to 10 percent ethanol but we never know for sure. I remember my old carborated triumph ran rough on 94. And I'm confused I thought it would work better. I also assume most of you are using very high grade that you may be able to find easier. Any ideas?





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